Thanks for the explanation. It is not surprising that Big Willie Style didn't mention these picking rights once in his press conference earlier today. They seemed to have shifted the focus to pension funding issues and Mayor Nutter.

The problem is, phillyPunkKid, that we need unions in this day in age if working people are ever going to keep from being squeezed to the limit. Real wages haven't gone up since the early 1970s, and the problem keeps getting worse. I'm glad there's still some unions in this country, and frankly, I'm tired of the negative attitudes that people have toward unions. It's a sad day in this country when the atittude is "I'm glad to have what I got." What "you got" is likely a job with no benefits, and no future.

"I guess since you have a Master’s degree, you’re in the same boat as phillyPunkKid in that you’ve never had to work a job that treats you like crap, right?"

First of all, I don't have a master's degree. Secondly, did you even read my last post? I worked selling shoes plus two other jobs AT THE SAME TIME to make ends meet. Anyone who thinks retail is a walk in the park is on drugs. Retail is hard, grueling work where you deal with people who could care less about your and your feelings... oh, and you have to do it all with a smile on your face. So yes, I do know what's like to work hard and have people treat me poorly. With respect to the job that I had, I worked it honestly, efficiently and without a chip on my shoulder. In fact, I went to work every day with a positive attitude because that's what my employer expected of me.

The mechanics and machinists that work for SEPTA do not have some useless skill that can't be transferred elsewhere. They can go to work for any of a number of other companies that would pay for their hard work. Simply put, if they don't like the job they can do what the rest of us do and look elsewhere. It's really that simple.

I would have a lot more sympathy for SEPTA workers if they were in general kind, considerate and respectful to their riders. Anyone who has ever had to deal with the ladies at the counter in Suburban Station near the post office know first hand the definition of the word "rude" because that's the only thing you get when you try to interact with them. If I were to have treated the customers that came in to buy shoes the way those ladies treat us as riders, I would have been fired, period.

As for the comment that I quoted (which again, was not my own), I'll say this. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of if you drive a bus for a living or you work in retail. That is a job like any other and ANYONE who takes the time to work a job seriously will get my respect. That being said, I think its reprehensible that they are trying to demand wages that are not commensurate with the work that they do. They don't save lives, they don't defend justice and they don't protect our borders. They are public transportation operators and they are being paid very well for that work. Just because they feel they are underpaid is not my problem as a tax paying citizen or my problem as a SEPTA rider.

I won't get into the petty name-calling and personal attacks here because at the end of the day, we're all human and more importantly, we're all Philadelphians. In other words, we are all ONE. Let's not forget that in the spirit of candid debating.

I'd love to see Better than SEPTA drive a bus. Preferably the Southbound 33. Wouldn't make to Lehigh Ave. without a nervous breakdown.

As someone who works in the Service Industry, the public that I serve SUCKS. My motto is this: Treat me like I'm Human Being, I treat you kindly. Treat me like I should act like a slave in a Minstrel Show, I treat you like dirt. If you complain, it' your fault.

My sympathies go to SERTA operators, because I'm in the same boat they're in.

That being said, Thier Union President is playing them for chumps.

Setsuna, I feel your pain because I know all too well how hard it is to work with the public. That being said, there are some jobs that just have strict requirements:

- If you want to work for a casino as a waitress or waiter, then you need to maintain a certain look.
- If you want to work for a family-focused amusement park, then you need to maintain a certain attitude.

This is just the way it is. Is it "fair"? Probably not, but that's the requirements of those jobs. SEPTA has its own set of requirements. Are they "fair"? That depends on the riders who actively choose SEPTA as a service. If the riders don't like the service, they can choose to not use it just as the employees can choose to leave if they don't like the requirements of the job. There are more then enough people who I'm sure would jump at the chance to get off unemployment and accept SEPTA's terms of employment. It's a shame SEPTA can't just fire all of the union workers and hire all of those who are dying for work.

For what its worth, Anonymous gave the most well thought out answer here. While I don't agree with everything that he/she said, I think it's a very valid point.

Anonymous, I'm actually for the idea of unions. It's just unfortunate that they can't keep themselves accountable and still employ archaic tact as opposed to evolving to meet and understand (the latter is clutch) the current culture and working climate. TWU 234 is not up to the task, apparently. This is still a workforce that has taxpayer money helping to fund the outfit that employs them, so there is a lot more need for candor and professionalism in such circumstances to make sure that the greater good FOR ALL are served...

...and when picketers block trolleys and buses from running, keeping not only its customer base, but funding base, away from doing what it has to do just for instigation, then I have no sympathy for any of these people, and lend their cause no support.

Be the bigger person. Is that so hard or foreign a concept?

I'm mad at myself for ever depending on Septa for anything. No one will win this time around. To many people have lost jobs and the next time Septa wants to muscle the state for funding the "golden goose," won't be there. I've learned my lesson once and for all and will do whatever possible not to use public transportation ever again.

Colin, can you cite and elaborate on your "Currently, SEPTA drivers make $29k" statistic? I'm not saying your figure is wrong, but I must have seen the figure "$52k" in at least a dozen Inquirer and Daily News articles in the past week, and the one hard number I have to go on is the oft-printed "SEPTA bus, subway, and trolley operators earn from $14.54 to $24.24 an hour, reaching the top rate after four years."

By that hourly wage, operators with four or more years at SEPTA earn $48,480/year (assuming 40 hrs/wk and 2 wks vacation); new hires earn $29,080/year. And I would guess that at least 75% of operators have four or more years; even assuming the other 25% are at the lowest pay, that works out to an average annual income of $43,630.

That's a lot lower than the oft-printed "$52k", but it's also a lot higher than your "$29k". And neither number includes the behind-the-scenes pay of benefits, which is generally worth at least 25% on top; nor do they include the 1%/year taken away for healthcare and 3%/year for pension. Putting that all together, the $43,630 in income becomes ... $52,792 in compensation. Which is probably how the Inquirer is calculating its $52k figure, more or less. I'm very curious where your $29k came from.

"Your source? Multiple news outlets report an average salary of $52k. Please trouble yourself to explain how they are wrong.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/20091101_SEPTA_strike_threat_is_ended.html"

I don't see an explanation of your $29k figure here; all I see is the hourly pay statistics which I used in my above calculation of $52k as an average annual "compensation" (or $43k as average annual "income").

Also, the $1250 immediate signing bonus appears to be being completely disregarded by the union when they repeatedly claim "Local 234 ... said SEPTA was offering 9 percent over five years with no increase in the first year of the new contract." That $1250 bonus constitutes 2.57% of the annual pay of a four-year employee, or 4.34% of the annual pay of a new employee. Sure looks equivalent to a big increase in the first year of the new contract to me; it's statements from the union like this which go a long way towards making me side with management.